Training that is TOO advanced
Alright. Welcome back, guys. Day 2 of the THB Strength podcast.
Isaiah Rivera:What am I supposed to, actually?
John Evans:We should probably start with a call to action because we never do them.
Isaiah Rivera:This podcast is brought to you by THB strength dot com. If you would like to jump higher and get rid of knee pain, please go to THPstrength.com to get coached by the 2 premier vertical jump coaches on planet Earth. Coach John Evans has written Isaiah Rivera's training who has the official world record at 50.5 inches at the approach vertical jump and we also coach 10 plus elite pro dunkers. The only vertical jump coaching that has consistently made elite athletes even more elite. Now, when you take those methods and apply it to average or below average genetically gifted athletes, the results are outstanding.
Isaiah Rivera:Outstanding. With an average of 4 inches of vertical gain in 6 months and 1 in 5 athletes getting 7 inches in 6 months, results may vary according to your genetic predisposition to jumping higher and making progress. But, alas, we will help you reach your genetic potential. There is no other better option for jumping higher if you are willing to work hard. Because, the number one reason people hop off is because they are beep and don't like to handle hard training.
Isaiah Rivera:Bitches. But, if you love jumping and dunking, and you like working hard, and you're not scared of hard work, go to tsvstrength.com. Sign up for the coaching. We also provide a comprehensive vertical jump training course that is gonna give you more vertical jump knowledge than even an exercise science degree. I know because I have one, and John has a master's for me.
Isaiah Rivera:It. And we would have much rather have signed up for THP and just done the course there.
John Evans:THP exists to basically answer all the questions that Isaiah and I had when we were kids, except better. Actually, in college. All the questions we had in college. And? Anyways, so, the topic today is actually going to be it's going to be what you would do if you had an athlete who was perfectly injury resilient, meaning they they could not get hurt.
John Evans:And I was I was basically going to apply best practice within reason. Right? So, like, obviously, jump every day is not an option. Right? But they're, like, very, very resilient and incredibly resilient.
John Evans:And you could apply your absolute best training knowledge to them without regard to injury outside, like, the norm, I guess you could say.
Isaiah Rivera:Yeah.
John Evans:Hello, Austin. Hey. Welcome. Welcome. Did you hear the did you hear the prompt today?
Isaiah Rivera:I don't know what's going on. Okay. How would you train an athlete if they were perfectly injury resilient?
John Evans:Not perfectly, but, like, pretty freaking injury resilient.
Isaiah Rivera:Well, Constantine So how would I train Jordan Kuganek when he was when he was 21?
John Evans:It's a fair it's a fair question. Alright. So I was thinking about this today, and the reason being is someone was asking me in the chat. They were like, well, how many sets should be lower like, the build up sets? So if it said last 2 at 80%, how much of that should be, like, heavier than the last 2 sets?
John Evans:And I was like, what do you mean? Like, the the build up sets are meant to be lighter till you get to the top 6. And then he was like, oh, it doesn't even feel bad. My RP is, like, a 5 to 6, which I'm like, then you're not at 80% if it's
Isaiah Rivera:5 to 6.
John Evans:And you're going heavier than 80% in the last two sets. Sets. So I was like, well, best case scenario, an athlete like you, I would you know, I thought of, like, well, he's kinda like one of those guys. Like, you could push harder without consideration. And one of the things that popped in my head was VVT because I don't do velocity based training with these guys as much, because they're more injury prone.
John Evans:Like, if I had you guys do every single rep as fast as you possibly could the last 3 weeks, every single rep
Isaiah Rivera:Yeah. I would've done it. As you
John Evans:could, what would've happened? Yeah. What's what's on your nose?
Isaiah Rivera:Boogie problem.
John Evans:No. It's up here.
Isaiah Rivera:What do you mean? I don't know.
John Evans:You can look at yourself and figure it out. Alright. So, Isaiah, specifically, what, like, what issues do you think would have popped up?
Isaiah Rivera:Ketchup. Ketchup. Who's ketchup? My PFP would have gotten flared up. And, honestly, I just would have been way too fatigued.
Isaiah Rivera:I was already, like, on the brink of I don't know. Actually, I don't give up.
John Evans:I think your I think your, your PFP and and tenants would have been obliterated. Yeah. Like, I don't think you get through the volume doing that. I think my
Isaiah Rivera:I think my knee would have been destroyed. My knee would have definitely been destroyed. Possibly hip, possibly back, mainly knee.
John Evans:So you think you guys get hurt fast?
Isaiah Rivera:Yeah. I think I'll we can find the 1st 2 weeks, maybe a week and a half and then it would definitely hit us.
John Evans:So, yeah, I would definitely have guys do that, though. Like, if I had a perfectly healthy athlete I'm talking you're 15 years old, indestructible. You're not really doing jump sessions every day, you're gonna train in the weight room. I would have him lifting every single rep with perfect technique as fast as he possibly could. Deadlift, stand up as quick as you can.
John Evans:Squats, stand up as quick as you can. Calf raise as explosively as possible. Yeah. Like every single lift, every single movement.
Isaiah Rivera:I mean, I think I could do it on working sets, but not on build up sets. Like, my build up sets are purely to so that I can, like, try hard.
John Evans:On the top sets.
Isaiah Rivera:On the top sets. Yeah.
John Evans:I think the other thing that I would do is I would add sprints every day. I would have not every day. Sorry. Every other day. I would have sprints in the training, and I would push the volumes.
Isaiah Rivera:I think I can handle sprints.
John Evans:You could? I mean yeah. I would definitely do that. If, like, if if the athlete had the time and they were injury resilient, I think that would benefit them. Like, I would put a proper sprint progression in for sure.
John Evans:Yeah. I just don't with these 2 because time constraints, Isaiah's vertical doesn't really respond super well to it anymore, I would say. Like, it's not something we need. We could do it in really general cycles. I guess, technically, last this cycle, we could've put them in, but it would've just taken a lot of time because there's other things I'd rather do.
John Evans:Like, we already were training an hour and a half to 2 hours.
Isaiah Rivera:Yeah. We're
John Evans:gonna do up into up into 3. Like
Isaiah Rivera:Yeah.
John Evans:That would be that would be ridiculous. But I would definitely do that. I would definitely add sprints in. And then I think I would probably have I think in terms of the dunking, like the dunk sessions, what would be best case scenario if you were really, really resilient? If you only cared about performance, not even dunking per se, just jump height and performance.
Isaiah Rivera:I mean, my sessions would be I'd dunk for a while probably.
John Evans:Like, you would just increase the time?
Isaiah Rivera:I'd probably be dunked for, like, 3 hours a session. Okay.
John Evans:Yeah. That's outside the realm of normalcy. Let's say that it's normal to have, like, you have an hour and a half with warm up.
Isaiah Rivera:Yeah. I mean, that's what happens already, to be honest.
John Evans:I think what I would do if I only cared about that is just Vertec for an hour and a
Isaiah Rivera:half. Yeah.
John Evans:I would just literally be, like, put the Vertec up there and just see how high you can touch. If that was my only goal.
Isaiah Rivera:Are we bringing the Vertec on Friday?
John Evans:Yeah. And then ISOs, I would have them do it 3 times a day for calf and knee. I'd definitely do that. What else would you add?
Isaiah Rivera:You could do plyos.
John Evans:You I would have a proper plyo prereq.
Isaiah Rivera:Like, on the same day. You could also jump and lift on the same day. Yeah.
John Evans:You could jump and lift on the same day and lower volumes.
Isaiah Rivera:Oh, you could probably you could add probably, like
John Evans:Oh, you know what else I would do? Like, because we're just talking about complexity, adding complexity, I would superset. I would superset plyos Yeah. With lifting. It's just I don't because guys are not healthy at night.
John Evans:They they don't no one's really healthy enough to do it. Well, these guys definitely aren't. I'm not even really healthy enough to do that. Prove them wrong one day. I'm trying to think of what other stuff, what complex Oh, I would do I probably would build in Well, you've You guys have gotten through the super maximal stuff pretty easily.
John Evans:I would I would have cycles though of fast eccentric work with load. So I would put, like, I would build them up, but I would put, like, £300 on their back and then say drop and stand up as fast as you can with it or something like that.
Isaiah Rivera:I do feel like I would get a lot more out of plyos if I could try harder on them.
John Evans:I didn't. Fios are fios
Isaiah Rivera:is usually, like, just trying to get warm and then and it's, like, one set where I can really push hard. It'd be I think it'd be different if I could, like, actually push hard on every rep of plyos.
John Evans:I'm trying to
Isaiah Rivera:think of might be beneficial.
John Evans:I think the plyo cycle would probably have a higher frequency of plyos. I would probably try, like, 3, 4 times a week, different types of plyos. Yeah. And they would be, like, more volume and then progress to less. I would potentially do that.
John Evans:But for a dunking athlete, maybe maybe not for a dunking athlete.
Isaiah Rivera:I think I would, bro. If it if it was a really resilient athlete, I would have them dunk before lifting.
John Evans:Like, instead of sprinting? Yeah. I just don't think that's doable. I don't think it's possible.
Isaiah Rivera:If it was, though.
John Evans:Like, a 15 year old, 14 year old Yeah. Do you think they could do that? Like, I think if when I was 14 or 15, I might have been able to do it.
Isaiah Rivera:I definitely could've when I was out. No. Yeah. I didn't start getting knee pain until I was like, what? Like, how did I mean, I see it happen a lot with guys.
Isaiah Rivera:I I used to do it. Like, I would, like, lift, and then I'd be like, oh, I feel, like, warm, and then I go go dunk.
John Evans:And how would your knees feel the next day?
Isaiah Rivera:Shambles. Yeah. But I was, like, really low on, like, the continuum of healthiness as a high schooler. Like, I was, like,
John Evans:the most unhealthy person I knew. In terms of in terms of tendon health?
Isaiah Rivera:Yeah.
John Evans:Yeah. Health, stuff like that. That's actually crazy when you think about it, how injury prone you were. I was less injury prone than you. Austin, I don't know about you.
John Evans:Austin, get that shit.
Isaiah Rivera:But for me, it was it was literally just my knees. Like well, just one knee. Like, the rest of my like, I never had any issues with muscle pulls. Like, I don't think I had shin splints really. It was in my knee.
Isaiah Rivera:It was, like, the only injury I
John Evans:I would do more intense squats. I would do a lot of stiffness hops with, like, very stiff legs. I would do shock loading, very short ground contact time shock loading. I probably would put over speed over speed sprints in there. This is stuff I just don't do.
John Evans:It's hyper advanced, and I don't use these stimuli because most people can't handle it. They'll just get hurt. Yeah. Like, I don't do complexes. I don't really use VBT.
John Evans:I don't you know what else I would do? I would get on the force plate and I would have guys do ISO max time under tension reps more often. I think it just shreds the car.
Isaiah Rivera:It's wild because it's a lot of the things that I think guys like researching or looking at on, like, social media and stuff. But, like so I feel like athletes are always in search of, like
John Evans:What's newer? What's the best way to train?
Isaiah Rivera:Yeah. But, like, 90% of athletes, it's just not it's not realistic to expect that you're gonna be able to do all of that. Like, how
John Evans:do you fit that in a periodized plan outside of super low volumes? And even then, you have to probably give up something else to do it. Right? Like, if I was like, oh, I want you to do more plyos, you're probably not gonna be able to jump as much.
Isaiah Rivera:Yeah.
John Evans:There's no way. Yeah. If I if I superset lifts like that, you're gonna get hurt and you're gonna be out of commission. You're not gonna be able to dunk, and that's gonna be worse than having this random ass superset stimulus of bounding an alternate, like, blade alternate walking lunges at at high loads. Like, that's just not
Isaiah Rivera:I will say it. I think I could I could do that type of stuff if I wasn't dunking. Yeah. Like, if you But
John Evans:that's what I'm saying. Yeah. What?
Isaiah Rivera:But then what would happen?
John Evans:And then you do that, when would you do it? You do it in a hyper specific phase. Right? Yeah. So you're gonna pull out the thing that's the most specific and most important for you to do Yeah.
John Evans:To do
Isaiah Rivera:something that's less specific.
John Evans:Specific. Yeah. That's that's a little less specific and may or may not work, but it's very complex advanced training. Yeah. Like, just because it's the more advanced
Isaiah Rivera:Hey. It'll get views, though.
John Evans:It will get views. Simple as always always gonna get less views. But, yeah, that's pretty much all I have. I think that's the only things I would add. Right?
John Evans:You can't think of anything else advanced, maybe k box.
Isaiah Rivera:I I was shamed this the other day. I think it would be cool to, like, try research on me. Like, pull out dunking and then, like, test my vertical, test my, like, standing vert, try something for for a cycle and then retest. Yeah. I really specifically, like, the depth jump stuff, like, I was like, damn, I wish we would've I would've tested how high I can jump on the lower boxes.
Isaiah Rivera:Oh, yeah. And then see because we know I can touch I can get at or close to my standing vertical from the 60.
John Evans:Well, the thing is you could probably just take one weekend and do that.
Isaiah Rivera:Yeah.
John Evans:Like, one jump session and do it. If you really wanted to know because you're a one of 1 athlete. Like, no one has a 50.5 inch vertical and it's
Isaiah Rivera:That's why I wanna like, I wanna
John Evans:You wanna know what happens with the super g
Isaiah Rivera:Yeah. With just random, like, things I see in research. Because like I was looking at a lot of research and this is always so flawed. And like like I was looking at one research study where they measured, depth jumps and, like, their effect on athletes' verticals, but it was like 20 of them were, like, female athletes, the other 20 were, like, college basketball players. The average verticals probably vary wildly.
Isaiah Rivera:You know what I mean?
John Evans:Between 18 inches 32 inches.
Isaiah Rivera:And at at that point, it's, like, we've said this before, like, a lot of athletes will will a lot of people will think of, like, NBA players as, like, the the upper echelon of athleticism, But they're really not that when you compare to how athletic you could be, like, if you took an NBA player. Right? Let's say you took what's an average athleticism NBA player? Like, let's say
John Evans:He entered.
Isaiah Rivera:But that's considered a good dunker. Probably, say Oh, like an athlete? Yeah. Anthony Edwards. Alright.
Isaiah Rivera:Take Anthony Edwards. Right? Yeah. Crazy athleticism. Seeing his upper echelon of athlete.
Isaiah Rivera:But what if he would have trained as a pro dunker? How high could he jump? Oh, way
John Evans:higher than now.
Isaiah Rivera:Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I think of, like, with the NBA, it's like you're not seeing with people like that, you could do a study. Someone that's relatively untrained with good training as far as vertical, they might improve, like, their vertical from doing subpar like, I don't know. You just can't really, like
John Evans:The other thing too is, like, yeah, it's, like, untrained versus well trained. I mean, they're well trained in the sense of a lot of elastic contacts. Yeah. But in the weight room, they're pathetic. I mean, abysmal.
John Evans:Yeah. And if you if I brought you into the weight room with those guys on a lift, like, Wednesday, and I said try to keep up Yeah. They get fucked up. They would get destroyed. Yeah.
John Evans:And what? He's 64, 65? Mhmm. It's not like he's that tall where I'd be like, woah, it's your limb length. That's why.
John Evans:And he moves well. It's I think he would get destroyed by you. And that's a testament to the fact that, like, he's so genetically freaky, but he's so untrained in the weight room. Yeah. And, yeah, maybe he's done even plyos, there's no way he can alternate leg bound well.
John Evans:I promise you compared to a triple number, he does not alternate leg bound.
Isaiah Rivera:He would actually be a good the thing is though is, like, I feel like those athletes aren't really looked at in those studies because they're probably playing professionally. Like I think the ideal scenario is to get someone that's really athletic, relatively relatively untrained. It's like, alright. What happens if he does depth jumps at at this height? Does his vertical does his vertical change at all?
Isaiah Rivera:Like the VCU? Yeah. Don't play basketball to take, like, basketball What's the VCU
John Evans:kid's name?
Isaiah Rivera:He's nuts, though. Yeah. I forgot. I don't know his name.
John Evans:But him, He'd be perfect. He's relatively untrained, jumps super high. What would happen if you do some depth jumps?
Isaiah Rivera:But when you look at, like, studies, it's, like, it's not elite athletes at all.
John Evans:And that's what a lot of coaches that's usually their dig. But Yeah. I feel like that's that's a good place to stop. These guys are gonna get training. And, yeah, go to teachbshrength.com if you're really serious about improving your vertical.
John Evans:Right now, the service is wildly underpriced for the value that you get from it, having access to the 2 top jumps coaches in the world are arguably, but I would say, yes. We are. We can do in season for volleyball and basketball, ACL, MCL, LCL, PCL injury that you're returning from, Achilles, hamstring tendinopathy, solid tendinopathy, quad tendinopathy, back pain, shoulder pain. No. Shorter pain, I'd say, is, like, we can do it, but it's not our expertise.
John Evans:Anything else I forgot? Uh-huh. Muscle pulls. You know where to go. Thanks for watching, guys.
John Evans:See you tomorrow.
Isaiah Rivera:I guess, an argument for the research studies, though, is most most athletes are not genetically gifted. Are you
John Evans:sure you don't wanna keep recording?
Isaiah Rivera:Alright. Most athletes aren't genetically gifted so it's like
