The Number One Reason You Aren't Dunking
Hello, everybody. Today, we're gonna be talking about the number one reason you can't dunk. This is an epidemic that that probably ninety percent of athletes that are out there trying to dunk have. I've personally suffered from it. I don't know
John:if you have, John. Make it sound like an infection. A disease. I
Isaiah:think it is. It is like a disease. I think every dunker I've met has gone through it, and it can be summed up by shiny object syndrome. We're gonna talk to you guys about how to avoid it, the pitfalls, what we think the path should be. Yeah.
Isaiah:And before we get into that, I do wanna remind you, it's Black Friday, six months free if you buy six months of coaching. And then if you don't wanna spend money or it's too risky, you can do our free six week challenge with a deposit that you get back if you complete it. Link in the description or in the pinned comment.
John:Quite the deal. So let's let's go ahead and list off a hypothetical scenario. Like, give me, like, put me inside the head of this person. What do they look like?
Isaiah:This person is a dunker, or he's trying to dunk.
John:He's trying to dunk.
Isaiah:You've probably you've probably been trying for a year or two. Usually, it flicks people once they learn, I feel like. Like, when they've done a a ton of research on jump training, find out about the benefits of strength training, they find out about how important jumping a lot is. And I would describe it you know, the the Donnie Kruger effect?
John:Yeah.
Isaiah:Donnie Kruger effect. If you don't know it, Google it. D o n n I e. Kruger is k r u e g e r. But it's basically when you first learn about a topic, you don't know a lot.
Isaiah:And then you get to a point where you learn a lot, and then you feel like you know a bunch about the topic. And you you have this high, and then you keep going, and then you realize you actually don't know that much. You hit a low, and then as, like, the years go by, then you actually become wise in the in the said topic. And I feel like people this this usually hits at the peak. So when you're, like, kind of a noob in the jump training space, you know, a year or two in, and you feel like you learned a lot, but you actually don't.
Isaiah:And then when you try to do it yourself, which is usually, like, the side effect of this, is, like when I see it a lot is people start jump program and then hop off and try to coach themselves.
John:Yeah. And I think too it's
Isaiah:The low point usually being injury, I found, or plat plateauing with
John:your vertical. And this seems to affect people that are very talented. That's something else I've noticed. Like Yeah. You know, you could you could easily make a, you know, an argument like, oh, John, I hit better dunks than you.
John:Therefore, I know more than you. Like, that's their logic, and that's a fallacy. It's a logical fallacy. Like, when Bill Belichick was coaching the Patriots for in those prime years, he wasn't on the field. Dan Paff doesn't run sprints anymore.
John:You know? The head coach doesn't play on the court Who's Dan Paff? Anymore.
Isaiah:Dan Paff.
John:Dan Paff is arguably one of the greatest track coaches ever, and I interned with him for four months in 2016. He's coached I wanna say it's, like, 25 medalists. I I don't know what the actual number is. See, the 25 Olympians or 25 medalists. I wanna say it's medalists, but I don't know.
John:He's probably one of the smartest, kindest individuals I've ever met. He's, the best grandpa you could ever ask for. He's pretty great. So, you know, they, I think these people tend to look at, you know, someone like us or whatever, and they're like, well, I already am jumping so high. Therefore, I know more.
John:And I think, Isaiah, maybe early on, that was, a test for me. I think it was, like, you know, you you kinda, like, phoned up. Not not a lot, but you were definitely, like, on that train of thought when we first talked. It was like, well, he can't, you know, do crazy dunks. And I was like, well, I'm not talented.
John:Like and there's a lot of things I would change if I could go back to
Isaiah:to the
John:Really? I thought you I I got the impression you were at first, honestly.
Isaiah:No. I I was skeptical. Like, it was, like, healthy skepticism, but it wasn't for me you're not being able to dunk. I actually had no idea that you could it on. Yeah.
Isaiah:Yeah. Like, I had I had no idea. I just saw you as as Austin said, you're very non like, my my context coming in was this guy is really smart about jump training. And that was all and that was all I knew. But I came in, like, to verify that essentially.
Isaiah:Like, I wanted to see so it was, like, healthy skepticism, but I was never a person that viewed you have to be good at the thing to be able to teach the thing. Like, I never because I get it I mean, it's illogical.
John:Like It is illogical. Yeah. It's very logical.
Isaiah:Genetics are
John:a thing.
Isaiah:Like, I always had a understanding of genetics. Like, you gotta think you have the best email. I came in not that good. Like, I wasn't as naturally talented as other dunkers that I've seen in the scene.
John:Which is funny because I think people view you as wildly talented. And I, not to discredit him, I do not view him as wildly talented. I view him as a wild responder. Maybe you're talented in that regard. But, like, you're talented, but I don't view you as, like, day one you had a 50.
John:You know what I mean? Yeah. Or, like like, you you were getting your neck at the rim without any training. Like, to me, you know, those are the guys that are just incredibly
Isaiah:Yeah. Gifted. I mean, I I have an understanding of well, had and have an understanding of genetics. And there's so many factors that go into improving. And it it always, to me, comes down to the the Socrates or Aristotle quote of, like, it's about reaching your personal potential.
Isaiah:It's not about how good you are. Everybody has a a set limit based on their genetics, and then the training allows you to to realize that. For some people and I'm very, like, brutally honest with this. Well, to myself, I try not to tell it to people and sometimes people are deluded, but, like, there's people that come in to THP, they might never hit a two hander. They might dunk.
Isaiah:They might grab rim, but maybe they're only touching the backboard right now. Yeah. But they're not, like they might never ever do that do that. And some people are, like, deluded and think they're gonna, like, you know, have a 46 inch vert one day. That's very, very difficult to do.
Isaiah:But to me, that doesn't matter. Right? Like it like, it's just realize your personal potential, and then it's a great way to stay in shape. It's a great way I put this in my story. It's like the founding of youth.
John:Like Mhmm.
Isaiah:I think your, like, your health risk is, like, directly correlated to your ability to sprint and jump into an old age. Like Yeah. There's so many benefits to it, but, yeah, I never ever cared about
John:your That's interesting. Well, that's good. That makes me feel makes me feel better about myself. Not really, actually. I wish you thought I was a good athlete.
John:No. I'm just kidding. So but I think the the people that are listening to this, if you're like, what who is this person? If you're someone that also program hops. Like, if you're a program hopper and you hop off a program only to then try your own that fails and then try a different one that fails.
John:Like, Ben used to be like this, actually. He, like, wanted to try every program, and he was, like, at the early stages of the Dunning Kruger effect. You know? And he's like, oh, like, you know, I I know a lot because I listen to this one person, and I listen to this one person, and I listen to this one person. But the problem is you end up skipping a lot of steps because it's not systematic.
John:So you go to whatever, x expert, whoever it is. Right? And you do their weight training, but then you add in our upper body or you add in our general work. And then you wanna do the plyos with someone else, and then you add that as a supplementary, you know, add on to your workouts. And then you see a cool exercise on Instagram, so you add that.
John:And then you end up with this, pardon my language, but clusterfuck that doesn't really achieve any goal well. It doesn't because you're trying to address too many different qualities at one time, you end up not really achieving anything because you don't have a set outcome that you're regularly touching on in terms of stimuli. So for example, if I wanted to get faster and I also wanted to get fitter and I also wanted to lose weight and I also wanted to get stronger, some of those are complementary and compatible. Some of them are not complementary and compatible. Like, cardiorespiratory fitness is not complement complementary and compatible with speed and power.
John:It it it is neurally very different. You're not recruiting type two fibers. You're not stretching your stretch shortening cycles are not very fast. You're on the ground a long time. You're fatiguing, like, your body, yeah, neurally.
John:You're you're not training any of the same things, whereas something like power training is very complementary and compatible with sprint training. And in some regards, you wanna do them at the same time. And so I think what happens is guys just they pick and choose so many different things because they think, well, you know, if I jump every day and I do this and I do these plyos, like, you know, it's not I how would it be possible that I don't get better? And it's, like, because we see in evidence that you don't adapt to anything. You just your body is seeing so many different stimuli that it doesn't improve.
Isaiah:I also wanna add a side point here. You have to everything we say in this podcast and in a YouTube video, the the filter you have to take it through is we are trying to make someone jump as high as possible. So it's okay if you like to, you know, you wanna be a, like, a hybrid athlete type of person, like, you wanna be a bodybuilder and then you wanna do You
John:can do high rocks. Training.
Isaiah:And then maybe you play basketball on, like, on the weekends and then and then you also like hiking, like, that's okay. And you'll be a healthy person. You might get hurt potentially, but, like, that is okay. But when we talk when we say anything in this podcast, it's with the lens of make someone jump as high as possible. That's what we're concerned with.
Isaiah:So, like because a lot of people, like, have given me flack before. I think there there is John might know what I'm referring to. When we
John:That one comment that was like, guys, these you're gonna tell them not to play basketball? Like
Isaiah:Yeah. Yeah. Like, there's it's actually happened multiple, like, dozens of times where we've kind of talked about this topic before and then someone it hurts feelings, but, like, we're talking having someone reach their genetic potential with jump training, the best way to maximize this is to stay within a system and then give that system time to work.
John:Yeah.
Isaiah:A long time. A long time. And then the more you change systems, the less likely you are that you're gonna see success in
John:Mhmm.
Isaiah:What you're trying to do.
John:I think too, one big pitfall is that you never learn what doesn't and does work because you're always changing what you're doing. Like, you know, if you started a twelve week program and stopped at week four, like, you're probably not gonna jump any higher because, well, maybe you will, but it's very possible that you wouldn't, especially if you were more advanced because you don't end up getting through a progression where you have residual training effects impact the following cycle, and that residual training effects from that cycle impact the next cycle. So for example, if Isaiah came in to this month and was like you know? And, honestly, some of the guys in the house are are guilty of this. Know, they'll they'll go into a cycle or whatever, and then they'll get through three weeks, they're like, oh, well, you know, I'm kinda banged up, so I'm just gonna switch completely.
John:And it's not even, like for them, it's not even a matter of not wanting to do the training. It's that they did something they weren't supposed to do during that month that derailed the system, and then I have to change the plan.
Isaiah:That that's a perfect segue into into something I wanted to mention. Your chances at success with jump training is, like it's directly correlated to your ability to fight human nature. Like, human nature is novelty and essentially chasing dopamine. Like, what what what do I mean by that? Lifting heavy, maxing out, frequent dunk sessions.
Isaiah:Those are like everybody wants to do that. That's the fun stuff. Even, like, higher, like, specificity, like, doing plyos and, like, doing the fun the fun type of training. Like, there's a time and place for that. It's human nature as a dunker to want to do that frequently, but you have to fight that.
Isaiah:Like, you have to be willing to you know, today, for example, came in, wanted to max out power clean, wasn't happening. I had to still do my doubles, like, on the day. Still still get that in. And there's, like, there's
John:a time and place.
Isaiah:One more thing. I wanted a back squat, max out. No. It would've been stupid. It would've been stupid to max my barbell back squat out on the day.
Isaiah:So we went and did my heavy triples on the bell squat. But my nature like, if I would have been by myself not having a program, not having something like on team builder, say, work up to a heavy triple. If I was programmed for myself, I would have maxed out my barbell back squat. And then my back would hurt. I would probably flare up my knee or something like that.
Isaiah:It's too much loading, especially after the weekend I just had jumping and a lot of walking and basketball, which I gave in to the demons played down.
John:Let's talk about that.
Isaiah:Like so that's why a system is important and then having the discipline to stick to the system is important.
John:Mhmm. Like, Isaiah just made this 13 page guide for the for the challenge the six week challenge, and it one of the first things in it is, like, this is a test to see if your schedule you know, you can maintain a schedule of training six days a week, you know, on a on a weight room program with, you know, one jumping day in there. It's a free week of training. This is your test. Like, can you even stick to this?
John:Because if you can't stick to this, you're certainly not gonna stick to the six week challenge. You're definitely not gonna be successful. Right? And I think that that's a really good filtering system to figure out, like,
Isaiah:can ignore it and discontinue them. I'm a
John:pin the call. I think you should. I think you should. I think it would be very applicable to what we're talking about. So big pitfalls here of things you don't wanna do.
John:One is you don't wanna you don't wanna write one off cycles. I think that's, like, probably the biggest mistake I see. There's an athlete online. I won't use names, but they recently posted, you know, what they were gonna do for the next month. And I looked at it, and I I try not to, like, give my opinions on these things because, like, I don't know.
John:I've just learned from life experience, but or at least to be discreet when I do. But, essentially, it was, like, stuff that was just a hodgepodge of exercises. Was no I remember.
Isaiah:Yeah.
John:And the sets and reps didn't make sense. The exercise selection was, like yeah. There were some good exercises in there, but inside of a a outcome for a training month, it didn't make sense. And inside of a macro cycle, it made no sense. It was like, we're just gonna jump to the most specific stuff, the sexiest stuff, the most fun, quote, unquote, fun stuff.
John:We're gonna do it to failure. We're not gonna do it for, you know, neural adaptation, or we're not gonna do it for tendon adaptation. We're just gonna get in there and and just find grind out a bunch of exercises.
Isaiah:And there there are, like, levels to it, though, as well. Like like, level zero is, like, you're not doing shit. Yeah. Right? Yeah.
Isaiah:Then there's, like, alright. Level one zero one is just consistency with anything. Like, that guy's hodgepodge. Like, McCarthy is actually a perfect example. Like, the fact that McCarthy was doing hodgepodge training, but he stayed consistent with it was better than him not staying consistent with something.
Isaiah:So it's like, can you stick to something? Can you train every day, basically?
John:Yeah. Like, one zero one.
Isaiah:Then the the 201 is, like, is there some semblance of, like like, methodology here, like, the science of training? Okay? Like, are you that's like me at 16. I'm doing freaking starting strength, three sets of five on stuff. It gets harder.
Isaiah:Using progressive overload Yeah. And that There's rest and recovery. Progressive overload. That's probably, the one zero one. Then the two zero one is, like, alright.
Isaiah:Are you periodizing it now? Or, like, the sets and reps changing? Then the three zero one is, like, okay. Are you implementing load management and then, like, variety in the training? Are you using the right exercises?
Isaiah:And then, like, four zero one is, like, alright. You have a coach. You're John, basically. Like Yeah.
John:You're, like
Isaiah:so that's, like, the levels, and each one is better than the one before. So it's, like, the ones to avoid are probably zero for sure, like like, do something one zero one. I would not do that, but it's better. It's like it's like choosing between, like, I don't know, like, alcohol and heroin. Like, alcohol is probably better than heroin.
Isaiah:Like, if you're gonna choose a substance but it's but then, like, the two zero one, three zero one is, like, alright. You're not doing any drugs. You're taking, like that's probably, like and choose that. Like so
John:And then three zero one's, like, you actually drink protein. Yeah. Yeah.
Isaiah:You don't go to Yeah. McDonald's or something. Yeah.
John:Exactly. But, yeah, I think that if you wanna get better, you need to be aware that it is systematic. If I were to, like, sum this up into, you know, one thing that would really be what it is and that the system makes sense and it's it's evidence based. Like, do you build volume? Does volume go from high to low?
John:Does intensity go from low to high? Do your sprints progress according to that continuum? Do you move along the force velocity curve? And some people like to talk a little schmack about the force velocity curve, but you pretty much you can from a performance point of view. You can't from a muscle tissue point of view.
John:So, like, you always and this kinda goes back to the system. Like, you have to understand why you're doing what you're doing and not just willy nilly pick exercises. For example, we know that in elastic I talk about it all the time. We know in elastic collisions that muscles act differently than they do in a lab on tensiometers where you're applying force to them. Right?
John:Like, that's where we see the force velocity curve be super applicable. Right? We know on an isoconnect dynamometer, if I lower the leg extension really fast and I select the degree per second, you're gonna produce a ton of force. Right? There's gonna be massive force.
John:And I know if I tell you to do it concentrically really slow, you're gonna produce a ton of force. And we know that it follows this, you know, kind of what is that? Sinusodal curve. But if you, like, get into collisions and stuff like that, you're like, oh, well, you know, all this is thrown out the window. No.
John:Not necessarily because you're still doing a lot of things in the weight room that aren't that aren't elastic collisions. And so each exercise category has its own progression. The weightlifting has its own progression. The sprinting has its own progression. The squatting has its own progression, and it's built into a twelve month macro cycle that's built onto another twelve months macro macro cycle that's built onto another twelve months macro macro cycle.
John:So if you're program hopping, you're never really reaping the benefits of month two, three, four, five, six, definitely not year one, definitely not year two. I mean, lifestyle stuff gets in the way. Don't get me wrong. Like Bro.
Isaiah:We could
John:talk days about, you know, moving and lack of amenities and stuff like that. But, like, should always try to have some sort of system at least to maintain where you're at, bare minimum, at
Isaiah:a high level. It's crazy too. Like, we we can probably end on this. We're twenty minutes in. Oh,
John:wow. That's crazy.
Isaiah:It's crazy. I'm now this is month two and about to end month two. Actually, no. It's, like, two and a half because we had, like, longer cycles. It was weird, but it is insane to me after, you know, getting two or three months into a training system.
Isaiah:Because leading up to this, I wasn't following a system.
John:We were basically just, like The system will stay healthy.
Isaiah:Yeah. Yeah. But it's insane, like, just how your physiology changes. Like, today, like and this just hit me just now. I handled an hour straight of jumping, trying a new dunk, played basketball later that day for an hour.
Isaiah:The next day walked nine hours at a theme park, then I squatted three fifteen for five, deep barbell squats slow. Mind you, that's numbers that I couldn't do before, like, in my prime. I was first testing 50. Then today, off one day, come in today on a bad day, felt horrible. Think about how I power clean 300 essentially for a double.
Isaiah:Yeah. Like and then the the squatting, like and that's like, it's just crazy. Like, when you stick to something. Like, when you stick to something for even what what's my rule? The three week rule?
John:Yeah. But Three to six weeks of anything, you pretty much get back.
Isaiah:If you're, like, you have training like, high training age and you're, like, washed up a little bit, takes about three weeks to get back. But then, like, it's amazing what can happen when you stick to something for three months, like, physically hard, pushing yourself every day, you're showing up every day. It's insane. Like, it blows my mind. Like
John:Yeah. Like, I'm so excited to dunk next. I think the adaptations that I've reaped from this cycle are gonna be ridiculous. I know I'm really fatigued. Like Yeah.
John:I expect to be like, if I were to dunk this week, I would be flat. I don't think I will just to, like, protect my hamstring. I wanna be safe and get through the cycle, like, successfully. But, like, during the deload week, I think that I'm gonna be feeling like a million buckaroos. And I was thinking about what I was gonna do next month, that's also I could get into that.
John:Well, maybe we'll we'll save that for tomorrow. But, yeah, that's the video guys or that's the podcast. I hope you guys enjoyed it. Click the pinned comment if you want a free week of training, 13 page guide. Zero.
John:Week zero. If you're a good fit for our six week challenge
Isaiah:See if you got this.
John:Yeah. We gotta see how this this muscle. How this muscle is right here. But it's free, so you don't have anything to lose. And if you And
Isaiah:no option. We're not gonna ask for your phone number. No.
John:We just this is totally free. Free. If if it ain't free, it ain't for me. That's what Dom says, and this is free. Maybe we'll give it to Dom.
John:But yeah. Thanks for watching, guys, and we will see you next time. Bye.
