THPStrength

Isaiah: 00:00

Are you a force jumper or are you a speed jumper? Find out in today's episode of the tsp strength podcast hosted by me who has a 50.5 inch vertical. That's what makes me able to talk about these topics. And John, who's trained me to get to that vertical, which and some other stuff that makes him able to talk about these topics.

John: 00:19

Oh, yeah. The only reason I

Isaiah: 00:21

can talk about it is because of you. Oh, wow. There's other there's other reasons. He jumps kinda high too. He's trained other

John: 00:26

Has nothing to do with Apparently, he's trained Olympians or something like to do with the the years and years of education. Yeah.

Isaiah: 00:32

I don't know about that. But

John: 00:33

Isaiah is the only reason I'm credible. Yeah. He said, yeah. Yeah.

Isaiah: 00:38

To the uneducated person. But before we get into that, if you do wanna get coached personally by us, you know, you get to get on a call four times a week with us for an hour. You get to get in a private group chat with us where you can send us videos for technique analysis of your lifts and your jumps. Oh, by the way, you also get a training course. You learn the science behind jumping.

Isaiah: 00:59

If you want all that stuff for an 86% discount, go to thpstrength.com. Oh, that's still too expensive? You can't mow a lawn twice a week for $99? Well, look, you, if you use the code THPStrekout, you'll get an extra 10% off that you only have to mow the lawn 1.9 times per week to afford the training. So, yeah, go go knock on some houses.

Isaiah: 01:21

Just go down the street. Tell them you'll you'll do a $50. I bet you you'll find at least two people in a month.

John: 01:27

Yeah. When people say they don't have enough money, unless they're living in a country where, like, the

Isaiah: 01:31

dollar If

John: 01:32

you're in The US. Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say where the dollar is

Isaiah: 01:34

like Australia or The UK or Canada.

John: 01:35

Yeah. Yeah. There's really no reason why. But Yeah. I can understand some other countries where the dollar is, like a thousand of your dollars.

John: 01:41

Yeah. And then it's then it's kind of understandable. But getting into the topic today, we're doing what did you call them? What were the words you used?

Isaiah: 01:49

Force jumper or speed jumper.

John: 01:50

Force jumper versus speed jumper or strength based versus speed based jumper. What do we what does this mean to you?

Isaiah: 01:58

I don't I used to I actually used to look into this. Actually, you know what the one I used to look at a lot? It's quad dominant

John: 02:06

versus hip. Oh, even better. Even better. Yeah. Yeah.

John: 02:09

Quad that's okay. Same thing. Quad dominant versus

Isaiah: 02:12

And I was like, this is definitely why I have knee pain as I'm quad dominant.

John: 02:14

You're just so quad dominant as a jumper. Yeah. As to assume that you can jump with just your hips.

Isaiah: 02:19

Yeah. But but not looking into the science, like first thought that comes to my head. When I when I think of a speed jumper off two feet, specifically off two feet, think of a guy with a short penultimate running really fast, short ground contact.

John: 02:32

That's saying when you hear speed?

Isaiah: 02:33

Yeah. When I hear speed jumper off too. And then when I think strength or force jumper off too, I think of a guy with a slow approach, really squatty technique

John: 02:43

Yeah.

Isaiah: 02:43

Long ground contact time, and they both jump high.

John: 02:48

The hell does good technique fall?

Isaiah: 02:50

Well, that's I guess what we're gonna talk about. Is that even a thing?

John: 02:53

Okay. First thing.

Isaiah: 02:54

Well, now now what do you think?

John: 02:56

Okay. So when I hear force based

Isaiah: 02:58

jumping First thought. Yeah.

John: 02:59

First thought. I think of squatty, like squattober, mister 500 squat, squat doctor. I think bending your knees a lot, no hip involvement, quad based. When I think speed, I think of Mr. Kilgannon.

John: 03:15

When I think of speed, you run fast as shit, launch yourself into the jump. I think a good technique. So that's what I think of.

Isaiah: 03:22

Yeah. Do you agree with that? I think good technique, I actually think of a tweener.

John: 03:25

A tweener?

Isaiah: 03:26

I think a speed jumper as where you're shorting the penultimate. The other one, I don't even think of a penultimate. I think of like a depth jump technique. So the question is this, is

John: 03:37

is it does it exist? Does it exist in your eyes? No. I don't I don't think so either.

Isaiah: 03:43

In my eyes, there's good technique and bad technique. Yes. Yes. And are you do you have high outputs or low outputs?

John: 03:51

I 100% agree with that. And when I when we talk about good technique, what do you qualify as good technique?

Isaiah: 03:59

I think you accelerate super well. So there's a good rhythm, good rhythm in the approach. It looks coordinated. Like, they're they're not running like this.

John: 04:10

And their arms aren't above their head.

Isaiah: 04:11

Yeah. On the arm This is the this is this is like the instant I'm like, this person's uncoordinated is when they hit support of the penultimate, they do this.

John: 04:19

And their arms are above their head?

Isaiah: 04:21

It's this one.

John: 04:22

Oh, yeah. That's bad. That's bad. That's bad.

Isaiah: 04:24

I'll do it one more time.

John: 04:25

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I've seen that a lot. It doesn't

Isaiah: 04:28

look good. So yeah. So they just it's coordinated, good rhythm. It's timed well. Decently short, like, last two steps really quick off the ground.

Isaiah: 04:39

Big split on the penultimate or at least pretty, like, distance distance wise. They took a big penultimate. I think those are the big the big things. Usually, there there's internal rotation.

John: 04:51

I was gonna say Internal rotation. Rotation of

Isaiah: 04:53

the lock foot. Big split on the with the feet. Show the people. Show the people

John: 04:57

what that means. Internal rotation. Right? Nice. Alright.

John: 05:01

What about what about the the split position? What type of can you get in that split position? Right

Isaiah: 05:08

there.

John: 05:08

Yep. Even more. Even more. And then what about flight time?

Isaiah: 05:12

You see a lot of

John: 05:12

flight time?

Isaiah: 05:12

Yeah. Okay. You're in

John: 05:13

the air for a while. So like like on the penultimate.

Isaiah: 05:16

Yeah. You don't collapse. You're able to like amortize Yeah.

John: 05:20

I I actually very, very much agree with everything that you said. I don't really have much to add. I really look to a couple people when I look at really, really good jump technique. I think Kilgannon has

Isaiah: 05:29

Wait. I actually wanna I wanna hear your thoughts. Top five Technique best tech Technically looking two foot jumpers.

John: 05:35

Myself is one. No, I'm kidding.

Isaiah: 05:36

All right. So They can they don't have to jump high. They don't have to jump high? They're most likely will jump high. Yeah.

John: 05:42

Okay. Kill Ganon. I think Kilganon's technique is let's let's say high jumpers. Let's do three jumpers that jump high. Three that have that that have great technique that don't jump high.

Isaiah: 05:50

Can you actually give I think this would be good just for the the people out there to study. Can you give, like, two or three left right jumpers to model your technique after and then two or three right left jumpers. And then maybe some one footers as well.

John: 06:03

Okay. So two foot, I would say, look at Kilgannon if you're left right. I think he has amazing technique, some of the best. You, I think you have incredible technique as a left right guy. CJ's pretty good.

John: 06:16

He's different. CJ uses a different strategy. But CJ champion,

Isaiah: 06:20

if you wanna look them up.

John: 06:22

Those those three guys really, really good left right because CJ hinges more. Kogana hinges more, but has a longer penultimate. You're kind of a tweener. You tend to be low and then upright in flight of the penultimate step. CJ and Jordan don't do that.

John: 06:35

Really good people to watch left right.

Isaiah: 06:37

What do you think about Lee Peck's technique? His jumps are He's right left? He's left right.

John: 06:41

He's left right? I think Lee Peck is incredible. Pushes super hard, great, covers a ton of distance, kicks out a lot, gets the arms back behind him. Block foot is way out in front internally rotated.

Isaiah: 06:51

I mean almost like it's like kill Ganon with like a circular arms.

John: 06:55

Yeah. Yeah. Does he use circular arms?

Isaiah: 06:56

Yeah.

John: 06:56

Yeah. He's incredible. I think Lee Peck he does the head forward the whole time and Yeah. Throws his chest forward into the jump. I mean, he's someone I try to emulate.

John: 07:05

And then right left, I think Tee Curry's incredible. Right left, Chris Staples. Moran. John Moran is the other

Isaiah: 07:13

one I was gonna say. Moran, Loki's the meta. He's the

John: 07:16

man. I think the best of best of best right left, jaw is probably the best I've ever seen.

Isaiah: 07:21

Yeah.

John: 07:21

He blocks harder with the foot further in front than anyone I've ever seen. Yeah. Launches himself into it. Anthony Edwards too. Anthony Edwards is another

Isaiah: 07:28

good one.

John: 07:28

Right. Dennis Smith. Dennis Smith.

Isaiah: 07:30

Junior. Yeah.

John: 07:31

He's incredible too. I don't think not Derek Jones. He's good. He's really good. But who's the guy that jumps crazy high went to, the G League.

John: 07:43

Derek oh, no. Was it I thought it started with a d. Oh

Isaiah: 07:45

my gosh. The tall guy?

John: 07:47

Six eight dude? Not Derek Jones Junior. No. Not him.

Isaiah: 07:49

No. No. No. DJ Steffens? DJ Steffens.

Isaiah: 07:53

I don't This is interesting.

John: 07:54

He's I

Isaiah: 07:55

don't think

John: 07:55

He walks into

Isaiah: 07:56

it. I think he's just a freak.

John: 07:57

That's what I'm saying. I think he's just a freak. I don't think his technique like, it's I

Isaiah: 08:00

wouldn't I wouldn't try to emulate it.

John: 08:01

I wouldn't try to emulate yeah. I wouldn't try to emulate

Isaiah: 08:03

because he's like, he walks into it.

John: 08:05

I would not try to emulate, t dub, golden child.

Isaiah: 08:08

Wait. Why why why not t dub?

John: 08:10

He has the freakiest genetic outlier I've ever seen in my entire life. He takes a moderate penultimate step. His arms are pretty I mean, the thing he does well is his arm swinging block foot. And he's He doesn't internally he's fast as shit. Doesn't internally rotate at all.

John: 08:27

Pretty talk about squatty. Yeah. Really squatty. Like just And

Isaiah: 08:30

he takes like off like backwards to the hoop. If the hoop's here, like he goes like, and then catches you. Yeah.

John: 08:36

Kinda kinda like I do, but I'm not a I'm not a teed up. I wish I was, but I'm not. He I just would not study him. Golden Child, very squatty, very short penultimate step.

Isaiah: 08:47

He's a he this he's someone I would describe as like a depth jump technique. Yeah. Like, almost, jumps

John: 08:52

into even worse. Yeah. Like, do not study any of those guys. I would not What about Staples? Chris Staples?

John: 08:58

What do

Isaiah: 08:58

you think of his jump technique? Incredible.

John: 09:00

Chris has one of the best some of the best jump technique, if not the best jump technique I've ever seen, especially when he's running really fast, and I've seen him get his head above the rim on, like, spins. Yeah. Unbelievable. I mean, actually kind of

Isaiah: 09:11

You know what's crazy is I never see him jump high off a lob or like without without dribbling. But I remember there was one dunk in dunk league where he like, I guess everything clicked perfectly and it was like, he was like, head at rim.

John: 09:23

Really? Like, slingshot?

Isaiah: 09:24

Like, off a lob, like and I was like, woah. He actually, like, he jumped high on that.

John: 09:29

He jumped I've seen him there's a video with Lee Peck and him. One of the most disgusting videos of them going, like, back and forth Oh, yeah. Spins. Yeah. That like, East Bay's and stuff that was ridiculous.

John: 09:39

Off the dribble, he's just disgusting.

Isaiah: 09:42

So disgusting. So now what's the difference between a speed jumper? Is there even is there such thing as a strength force jumper off one? I think And then who to emulate off one? Yeah.

John: 09:53

Okay. So that is a thing. Speed speed jumping and power jumping is a thing off one foot. And it really is delineated by the foot. So if I'm I don't know if I'll back up a little bit.

Isaiah: 10:04

That way I can I can tell you if you're in the frame?

John: 10:06

Yeah. Try not to touch anything because it's focused directly here.

Isaiah: 10:09

Oh, yeah. You're good.

John: 10:10

Okay. So can I stand in front of it?

Isaiah: 10:13

You you can see your socks, not your feet.

John: 10:16

Oh, what about here?

Isaiah: 10:18

Yep. Perfect. Yep. Okay.

John: 10:20

So this right here, leaning back from this position right here, you'll see this foot flick upwards. So it'll look like this. So if they speed jump, they'll go and jump off of it. The foot will come up, and it's this quick kind of block. The knee almost punches like down and forward as you plop down, and then you synchronize your arm swing up.

John: 10:41

It's really hard to synchronize. Very kind of awkward for most people. Most people can't do it. The right foot is actually more natural for me, and it feels like this. And I'll push up.

John: 10:51

So I'll kinda like it's almost like you're depth jumping and rolling. It's so weird to explain. Really hard. And then power jumping is a toe drag. So this is what I do if I'm trying to dunk.

John: 11:02

I don't know. I'm used to speed jumping. I gotta try to think of what I would do. I gotta put the mic down too. So I would plant here, roll through kinda like in this position, arms are back, and then I kinda sit into this hip.

John: 11:14

Arms are way back behind me, and then I would explode upwards towards the ball and usually grab. So I'll get a big toe drag, etcetera, etcetera, and I'll get a lot of lift from it. So good technique, people to watch for power jumping. I think Dalen is actually

Isaiah: 11:30

Dalen Finley. Dalen is

John: 11:32

an outlier. I've never seen anyone that big run that fast and power jump like that. He's really an outlier, but you can look at him. I probably would not

Isaiah: 11:40

His his IG is d j dot finley, I believe. And then you can also look up Dalen

John: 11:44

Finley handle the force of that takeoff. I would watch myself He's

Isaiah: 11:47

a

John: 11:47

freak. For power jumping. I would watch Sutherland. I probably wouldn't watch. He's a freak.

John: 11:54

Bobby and Delrid. A lot of high jumpers. High jumpers have good power jumpers and high jump. Amazing to watch. Fabian Delrid's probably one of the best I've ever seen power jumping.

Speaker 3: 12:06

He's he's the tall guy. Right? He's kinda big.

John: 12:08

Yeah. Big, sweet. I think

Isaiah: 12:09

he's strong as hell.

John: 12:10

Right? He's really strong. Trying to think of who else I would watch. Avion.

Isaiah: 12:16

What think is Zach Lavigne?

John: 12:17

Jones? Lavigne's a freak. Genetic freak. Yeah. He's like, you know who he he reminds me of when I watch him jump?

John: 12:23

Is I mean, he's okay. You could watch him. He's he has good rhythm. Okay. So I'll say this.

John: 12:29

All the guys I just mentioned, they have good rhythm. They accelerate off the ground. They're toe draggers. They accelerate through the plant. They do all those things well.

John: 12:36

What do think about? They don't have great alignment, like heel through their same side shoulder. They do time up the arm swing and leg swing well. They do weird ass hand positions and weird elbow positions that I don't love, which and they're sometimes not even effective for maximally jumping. It's just that that's what they do timing wise.

John: 12:59

What were you gonna say?

Isaiah: 13:00

What do you think of gi? Guy de puis?

John: 13:03

Guy is a running arm action power jumper. So he's perfect if you naturally do that or for trick dunks. I think if you wanna do trick dunks, he's one of the best people to watch. Like, if you wanna East Bay, you wanna windmill from distance, for sure. If you're just looking for peak jump height like touch, no.

John: 13:19

I wouldn't.

Isaiah: 13:19

And last guy I'll mention that I'll ask, who do you think? Kadoor. Oh. Jump technique.

John: 13:25

It's been a while since I've seen this.

Isaiah: 13:26

Feel like he has pretty good

John: 13:27

say, I I think his Like,

Isaiah: 13:28

near the dunkers? Because you

John: 13:29

He's like he's like me. He's like me, but better. Kadoor's probably one of the best, if not the best to watch, honestly.

Isaiah: 13:35

He's I think he I think his background is high jumping. It's probably why he

John: 13:39

Saw yours calling me. This is podcast. Sorry. Go ahead.

Isaiah: 13:44

Kadoor has a background in, like, high jump and stuff like that, which I think is why he jumps like that. Like, he jumps more similar to

John: 13:50

how power jumpers are high jump. When he cut when he uses the sticky ball or cuffs, disgusting. I mean, he gets super light jumper, super powerful, just you know, he's one of those guys that just jumped his way into fitness, I think. You know? Like, a lot of the time people are attributed to his mobility and stuff from being a power jumper and knowing a lot of power jumpers and seeing him.

John: 14:10

He's light, and he jumped a shit ton.

Isaiah: 14:12

He he literally told me that he would he jumped every day, and his thing was, like, he would try having a session. If something hurt, he just wouldn't jump that day, he would work out, and then he would try again the next day. Really? He repeated the process. Yeah.

Isaiah: 14:26

Was just like he said he was like he was like jumping is is how his body would tell him. Like, his how his body communicated to him.

John: 14:32

Yeah. I kind of agree with that as a one foot jumper, but he's indestructible. Probably because he weighs a hundred and thirty pounds or what what does he probably weigh in his prime?

Isaiah: 14:40

I don't know. Around there. It was probably one forty.

John: 14:42

Does he fast and stuff like

Isaiah: 14:43

Yeah. Yeah.

John: 14:44

Yeah. Like for real?

Isaiah: 14:45

During jump days, he he doesn't eat. He loses water. He just drinks a ton of water when he has to perform.

John: 14:52

Does he does he fast for religious reasons? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, okay. So he really is maximally lean.

Isaiah: 14:59

Yeah. And he's a he's a huge, like, diet not diet in the traditional sense of, like, counting your calories and stuff, but just, like, eat clean, like bad for you?

John: 15:09

Yeah. Yeah. No wonder I'm such an innate two foot jumper. I love to eat shit. Me too.

John: 15:14

So yeah. I know. Not literal shit.

Isaiah: 15:17

How's my one foot jump technique?

John: 15:19

It's gotten better. It looks bad. It doesn't look good. I've seen you when you cross body

Isaiah: 15:29

I think you see me not try a lot. I've seen you like my, like, man dunk.

John: 15:33

Yeah. I've seen you, like, goof off to it Yeah. A lot. When I saw you the best I saw it was at High Point with Dan Yeah. At Calvary when you touched eleven two, I think.

Isaiah: 15:44

Yeah.

John: 15:44

That was the best I've ever seen it.

Isaiah: 15:45

Or it

John: 15:45

might have been eleven four. 114. Because I touched eleven three. Or you touched I don't Something like that.

Isaiah: 15:50

Yeah. It was think it was eleven four.

John: 15:51

But that's the best I've ever seen it. Because you've got the rhythm right. You still stomp a lot. You don't really roll through it. You stomp a lot, and you just rely on sheer force, which after jumping a lot off two foot, I now understand why you do that.

John: 16:02

Cause you could just power through it. Yeah. You're like, oh, I just apply maximum force. Yeah, dude. You literally Hulk smash the ground Yeah.

John: 16:09

With your foot like that one. And you just, yeah, explode.

Isaiah: 16:13

So bad on my body though.

John: 16:14

Oh, it's horrible.

Isaiah: 16:15

As soon as I do one session off one, it's like, I I don't get shin splints. It's like my shins start hurting. Yeah. Probably because

John: 16:21

don't jump off one.

Isaiah: 16:22

Yeah. You just power through My knee starts hurting.

John: 16:25

Like, I've seen old videos of you east banging and shit, and I'm like, how does he do this? Like, it'll be like, not not to I don't wanna put you on blast, but I'll be like, that was not even that impressive of a jump. The hands are perfect. Lob was perfect. Jump is what you do well that is really weird is you don't have any lateral movement in your one foot jump.

John: 16:40

Most people have rotation in their one foot jump. They twist a little bit. You don't. You literally just Straight perfectly aligned, like you're made in a box, and you're just like it literally is like this. Your arms are straight back and back, and then you just that.

John: 16:55

That's literally what it is.

Isaiah: 16:56

So weird. I saw my two foot as well. It's just like.

John: 16:58

Straight ahead? Yeah. Yeah. You don't have a lot. Someone asked me about that the other day.

John: 17:02

They're like, what about internal rotation? It being I'm like, it's really important. Like, if you can do it, do it. I think my two foot technique emulates Selly. And this is what I would tell you on this topic, guys.

Isaiah: 17:11

Steven Selly.

John: 17:11

Steven Selly.

Isaiah: 17:12

I'm saying names because, like People don't figure out some people don't know.

John: 17:15

I I just If

Isaiah: 17:16

you hear a name, you say, just type it in YouTube, But and they'll pop

John: 17:19

Steven and I have very similar hip anatomy. Steven has had a 43, 44 vertical, I think.

Isaiah: 17:25

Yeah. I think forty four is his best.

John: 17:27

Yeah. I think Steven and have very similar genetics. I was gonna make a joke about our dicks, but I won't. Steven always jokes about having a. Never mind.

John: 17:36

I can't say it. But I think that the key is finding someone, and this all ties in, because I look at Steven to say, is acceptable? Right? Someone who has good technique, has the same anthropometric issues that that I have with my hips, and still is able to jump really high. How does he do it?

John: 17:56

What are consistently things that I see that Isaiah doesn't do that he does? Isaiah obviously has a 50 inch vertical. Steven's still amazing with a 44. Right? Similar to me, similar genetics.

John: 18:06

You wanna be inside of the bandwidth of do everything you possibly can do correctly without hurting yourself by forcing positions. Steven doesn't get a good internal rotation on his block foot. Steven does twist on his plant foot. But Steven pushes like hell on his penultimate step really good. Throws his arms back super far, covers a ton of distance.

John: 18:27

All that stuff and makes it look sick too when he does it. Right? So that's what I try to emulate. Those are the things I try to focus on because that's what I can control. It's not within my control to flex my knee a bunch and internally rotate.

John: 18:38

I will Steven Steven did myself.

Isaiah: 18:40

Case study too because he started Left right. No. No. No. He started training to jump higher at, like, 19 years old or something.

Isaiah: 18:48

Yeah. Like, it wasn't like he was, like, you know, doing it in high school and that type

John: 18:52

of thing. But he's always loved to jump. If you talk to him. He's always loved to jump. Yeah.

John: 18:55

But he learned good technique by just doing it. Mhmm. And he would always say footwork, footwork, footwork, footwork in his old videos. And I'm like, penultimate step, penultimate step, penultimate Like he'd never talk about how he throws himself into the plant, but he does every time and jumps super high every time. But if you want a really interesting case study of someone who is similar to me and kind of who I'm emulating my journey off of, two foot journey is Steven.

John: 19:19

Steven's very good But his old vlogs.

Isaiah: 19:22

Yeah. Old his old Yep.

John: 19:23

Vlogs are

Isaiah: 19:24

so much entertaining. I I low key wanna go back and, like, watch some of them. They're good.

John: 19:28

I just And you're in some of them too. You're in

Isaiah: 19:29

a lot of them. I had some of my freakiest jumping days and some of, like, videos I've never posted on my channel. Bro, I just went and dunked with Steven. He posted it.

John: 19:37

Yeah.

Isaiah: 19:37

That was always, like, a treat. If you Dunk with Steven. If you went and dunk with Steven, you'd you'd know you'd be like in a cool video. Fully edited video.

John: 19:43

I his videos, man. Yeah. Well, he's not he's dunking yet. Yeah. So We'll get to see him dunking.

John: 19:49

Bring the dunk vlogs back. Steven, do it, please. Alright. Is that good? I feel like it's a

Isaiah: 19:54

good place

John: 19:54

to stop. Yeah. Do you wanna

Isaiah: 19:56

do the outro? You did yell

John: 19:57

at me for not doing enough for Yeah.

Isaiah: 19:59

You're not gonna sign up because you can't find two lawns to mow this month.

John: 20:05

In America, Australia, Canada, or The UK.

Isaiah: 20:08

Please like the video. And if you're listening on a podcast platform, it goes five stars. And, of course, you can go to thbstrength.com to sign up if you can mow too longs.

John: 20:20

Or you have an actual job. Yeah. Thanks for watching, guys. We'll see you tomorrow. Bye.