Our FAVORITE Squat Protocol
What's up, guys? Welcome back to the THP Strength podcast. My name is John Evans, and I can help you run faster and jump higher. And today, I have Ben Moxness here, doctor of physical therapy. And we are gonna go through a list of questions that I actually have for him that I've prepared.
Speaker 1:Things that we've talked about over the last couple days, kind of off the dome, quickly wrote down some things that I was wondering. But before we do that, if you're interested in coaching, go to thbstrength.com. We help people run faster and jump higher. And I think we're pretty damn good at it.
Speaker 2:We're we're okay. Yeah. We're we're we're we're okay.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, let's get into it here.
Speaker 2:What is your favorite squat protocol, and how would you plan that in a mesocycle? My favorite squat sorry. My right there. A little
Speaker 1:Too close. Like an ice cream cone.
Speaker 2:My favorite squat protocol right now, I don't know the name of it, but I really like warming up with some heavy pause squats and then working up to a heavy single. If I was doing like a max strength focus so I'll do pause squats between like 7085% of of my one rep max for doubles. And then I'll work up to a single no pause at, like, usually 88 to 95% depending on what week I'm in. What do you
Speaker 1:think the downside would be? Or I guess, what do you think the pros and cons of using something like a bottoms up squat to develop isometric strength from a standstill RFD from that position? What do you think the pros and cons are doing it in an eccentric, then hold isometric, then concentric condition versus just doing it from
Speaker 2:a bottoms up. So you're talking about if I'm
Speaker 1:You're starting strength from the pins type emphasis.
Speaker 2:And you're not going all the way to lock to lockout, you're just doing like half like half range of motions?
Speaker 1:No. You would do it from where pausing. So imagine you set up the safeties. K. Where you are in the very, very bottom of a squat.
Speaker 1:So, you know, for you is relatively high compared to Isaiah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. A
Speaker 1:pin But at the bottom of the squat.
Speaker 2:Okay. Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. I think it's really good for starting strength and building that isometric RFD.
Speaker 2:Specifically, if I'm looking at some science stuff, I'd wanna see like a spike in rate coding immediately as you're starting to push into the bar. And this would and you would even have that before you actually develop force because you have the the the electrical mechanical delay. But just pushing up really hard into the pins is really good for that. You're building specific strength at like the sticking point, which is where which is where you're weakest. Like you have poor poor leverage.
Speaker 2:The downside is you're not working on controlling that eccentric portion and firing those motor units at the correct time. So I think the timing can be thrown off a little bit. What if
Speaker 1:you lowered it down back down to the pin and just it slightly on there and then exploded up out of the bottom? I think the biggest one is time and retention. You don't get the same time and retention that you would with a
Speaker 2:true Yeah. And you kind of unload the bottom. So you do work on you I would say you work on overcoming isometric strength because you're like sitting on the pins and then you're overcoming that weight. But you're not working as much on the very slight yielding component that you have in the bottom of the squad going from eccentric to concentric. Now, I still think you'll
Speaker 1:resting still it on the pins.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Because you're resting on the pins. But I still think it's really good. You know, like Westside had a like a a lot of success doing block squats, which which should be somewhat same thing.
Speaker 1:So Right. So then where would you use this in a six month macro cycle? Month two?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I would use I usually use my isometrics, a like a like a pause in preparation for like a full isometric cycle or at least emphasize emphasize isometric cycle. So I would do that like the pin squats, probably where I'm at right now, and then go into like actually doing a true like overcoming ISO. Like that would be my progression for it.
Speaker 1:By true overcoming ISO, mean you cannot Immovable. Immovable weight.
Speaker 2:Yes. Immovable
Speaker 1:weight. So let's talk about one of the pitfalls we've seen happen with elite guys doing overcoming isometrics, is the cartilage gets absolutely shredded. Obviously, Alex Mattera has some progressions. Have you taken his course? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay. So what were the what's give me the TLDR on how he goes through that progression and how you plan on integrating that into what you're planning to do next month.
Speaker 2:So he has his his yielding ISOs, he has his overcoming ISOs, and then he has, like, his ISO catches and then switches and then drops. I can't remember which ones are the most intense, but just picture like dropping fast and holding. Then that's like the progression from doing an overcoming ISO. He might do them in the same block. He doesn't really like go through a set progression, but he has ones he he has ways to intensify it.
Speaker 2:Or he'll to go like two leg up and then drop down catch on one leg would be like his Iso catches. Are you the same
Speaker 1:thing in a hamstring? So how about how he progresses the overcoming isometrics? Does he increase the time where you're trying as hard as you can? Change the position? How does he progress those overcoming isometrics across four week cycle?
Speaker 2:He I wouldn't say he he would add weight as necessary if you're, like, using a heavy weight that that you could potentially move. But if you're doing it just totally immobile object, he doesn't really I would say he from the programs that I've seen him write, he keeps it at like three to five seconds full push. You'll usually warm up to it either with like doing actual squats, and then you'll just go into overcoming ISOs for like three it's like usually three sets of three second pushes, and then like five seconds off, and then you do like three total. Like, you do three three reps They'll do per waves of it. Like kind of wave it.
Speaker 1:So do like waves of five seconds. So you get a total of fifteen seconds per set.
Speaker 2:Right. But usually those are all at a 100% Effort. Yeah. Effort. Yep.
Speaker 1:Okay. So it self intensifies similar to the way plows do. You get stronger, you get better at it, it's going to intensify. Okay. So how do you combat the very real possibility of mashing the cartilage in that position?
Speaker 1:Obviously, you're gonna have more articular well, less pressure when you're in an ideal range of motion. For example, in a squat, you're gonna have really high forces, high pressure, if I'm correct, at the bottom and in a quarter squat. The half range, you don't have quite as much, but that's still been very provocative for Isaiah before. That was the biggest pitfall. How do you
Speaker 2:think you'd manage that? So I would, one, obviously, just be really warmed up, like warm up with some normal squats, get a lot of lubrication in the joint. And then two, is I I would I like to space my really, really intense loading by seventy seventy two hours. So I would probably do the ISOs on a Monday, and then with the way that I'm doing with the way that I'm riding, like Dylan's training right now, is I'm doing like, would do ISOs on Monday, and then Thursday would just be kind of like a normal strength lift. I probably wouldn't do it twice in one week, or I would do on Thursday would be like, say, an overcoming for, like, a hip thrust, but it wouldn't be an overcoming squat.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So you you get the neural components addressed without overloading the tissue Mhmm. The cartilage. Okay. I like that.
Speaker 1:So then talk about when I'm assuming it's the same as me, but a little bit about the fatigue timelines when it comes to cartilage and how do you think it's seventy two hours roughly?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, if you look at, we don't have a ton of data with cartilage. Like, it'll return to its thickness within, like, six hours, but that's after, a running bout or or or not very heavy just like fluid. Yeah. Just like fluid coming in at a tissue.
Speaker 2:But we do have some good research in tendons where, like, after an an asymptomatic tendon, the if you play a game, it takes they'll they imaged it, like, before the game, the day of the game, and then, like, one, two, three days after. Or I guess one seventy two hours after. And basically, what what they found is you'll get some, like, kinda hypercell like, hypercellularity expression of, like, some, like, collagen two, which is a a little bit different color on under an ultrasound, a UTC. And it takes basically seventy two hours from an for an asymptomatic tendon, like a tendon, you know, that you don't have that you don't have pain in to recover from an intense game. So that so to me, that would be the equivalent of basically the like a jump session.
Speaker 2:Like, it's a full rugby match. I don't I don't know how how long they are. But and I and I would assume cartilage most mostly based anecdotally is gonna be follow a rough timeline. I think forty and forty eight's still pretty good, but at but at forty eight hours, you still saw some hypercellularity or some like some collagen two expression. But then at 72, then that that was all cleared away.
Speaker 2:And I I don't think they did much in between those
Speaker 1:And collagen two two days. So I think there's, what, six subtypes?
Speaker 2:There's, like, six subtypes of collagen. Collagen one is is what you want. Collagen two is I I think your tendon has a little bit of collagen two, but you don't want too much, obviously. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Correct. And then if you go down those subtypes, you're getting more dysfunctional. Is that Yeah.
Speaker 2:Basically. Yep. That's what yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay. So then what do you think is the most underutilized training stimulus?
Speaker 2:Training stimuli. Dude, I mean, I'm a big I'm big on just you have to just lift with high intent. And that's one reason why I really, really like cleans because, like, nobody gets hyped for a trap bar jump, peak power PR. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Know. And so I would say just personally, I would say cleans are under underutilized mostly because you get just really, really high intent. I think a lot of athletes just don't wanna squat heavy. And I mean, I just like training like an Olympic weight lifter, dude. I just think it's so fun.
Speaker 2:It's just so fun. You get really good vibes and you get really high intent. In terms of underutilization, maybe you can make the argument for doing some eccentric overload, like like super super maximal eccentrics or doing stuff with weight releasers. Not a lot of athletes really do that now. I don't know if a lot of athletes really need to do that yet, but in terms of kind of a special stimuli that I've experienced, I I also really, really like those.
Speaker 2:They will crush you for a couple weeks. Was gonna say, how long after one bout? Dude, I I mean, I would probably only do them once a week, even if you're doing seventy two hours loading because
Speaker 1:you're That's about what that's about what
Speaker 2:we've done. We've only been able
Speaker 1:to handle it once. And then I would only do
Speaker 2:a three week mezzo. I wouldn't do a four week mezzo at all.
Speaker 1:We did we did that, and then we also paired it. We supersetted it with plyos at end ranges to maybe get some of the adaptations to the muscle fiber that we've talked about with sarcomereogenesis and stuff like that. So the total time, I think, across the week, I wanna say we started at forty seconds and progressed up accordingly. But the whole mesocycle, I think the or no. Maybe the whole mesocycle of goal is about seventy seconds of load at end range at an accentuate accentuation.
Speaker 1:It's accentuated. And then we also paired it with a stretch shortening cycle in the form of, like, you know, double dip plyos or something like that where you're at end range. You're not amortizing super fast, which maybe is another question. So when the timelines increase, you're gonna dissipate more energy as heat. Your reflexes, you have more time for reflexive components to kick in, meaning that the muscle spindles can respond better at end ranges when it's very, very stretched, and you have a long stretch and an intense stretch.
Speaker 1:So tension is high. The length is high. Correct. And then so what do you think in regards to these plyos that are not in end ranges, but you have very, very high tension? So something like a very stiff plyo versus a modified depth jump or something like that.
Speaker 1:Or maybe a stiff depth jump versus a modified depth jump.
Speaker 2:You're talking about like stiff versus like an like an oscillatory type or just
Speaker 1:like a deeper deeper catch? Catch. Yeah. Right? Like, you've got a lot of time, so you have the benefit of really, really long muscle lengths, but you're not getting this the neural components, I guess, how do you think they differ between the two?
Speaker 2:So I think when you're doing when you're talking about really stiff plow contacts, like, let's just call it, like, a pogo hop, I think you're you're gonna develop a lot more pretension because you're you're trying to be stiff, and pretension will set up the muscle spindle via the gamma loop to be very, very sensitive to to stretch. When I've seen ultrasounds in research, the muscle will go through a very slight stretch, and then it'll remain isometric for pretty much the entirety of the eccentric phase, and then it'll it'll all shorten together. So that's what I would picture that mechanism as. Then when you're talking about deeper range of motion, I you're probably gonna develop less pretension so you can actually yield. But the benefit is now you're get now you're working on reflexive components at a deeper range of motion.
Speaker 2:Like, you're kinda getting that quick stretch in the What
Speaker 1:do think what do you think's more specific for two foot jumpers?
Speaker 2:I think see, I I would say you want both because you have your block foot Block
Speaker 1:foot and plant
Speaker 2:leg. You have your block foot and plant leg. So you need to get
Speaker 1:a deep
Speaker 2:catch for for the plant leg and then So
Speaker 1:do you think pairing them goes well?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I and I think they both have different sensor sensory motor packages that allows some motor learning adaptation to occur for sure. And and and some neuroplasticity. Well, like pretension for the block foot or learning how to, like, slightly yield, but then switch to that isometric straight really quickly versus just like yielding the entire time and then having a really slow concentric, like kind
Speaker 1:of like what By yields, you mean a true eccentric condition.
Speaker 2:Like a true I I true lengthening of the muscle. Yes. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay. I like that. That's good. That's good stuff. Good stuff.
Speaker 1:What what are you experimenting currently? Other I guess we've kind of talked about it. So 72 of loading. You're experimenting with a lot of
Speaker 2:these pause squats and things like that. What are some other experimental things you're you're doing right Tons of reps. I think because my my lifts were relatively stagnant for, like, probably a few months or maybe even a year. Well, one, because I was also rehabbing some stuff. But also, I don't think I got enough time under the bar.
Speaker 2:I so I was Like
Speaker 1:time under tension or just total reps?
Speaker 2:Just just total reps. Like I I and I posted this on my story the other day. Like my first month of this block of training, I did a 170 reps over 70% of my one rep max. Like, not just warm up sets, but also like working sets. And that's based off of some of Dane Miller stuff.
Speaker 2:Like, was talking about, shout out, Garage Strength. He has a bunch of data in his athletes, are like Olympic weightlifters and throwers and then some high level team sport athletes. And he's like, yeah. If if you wanna increase your squad from three fifteen to four zero five, you need it takes like 200
