Force Velocity Profiling Perfectly To Jump Higher
What's up, guys? Welcome back to the TSB Strength podcast. On today's episode, we're gonna be talking about Watts. Not whats. Watts.
Speaker 1:Before we do, I'm John Evans. I can help you jump higher. I'm one of the best in the world at it. I've helped thousands of athletes improve their vertical over the last five years. This is Isaiah Rivera.
Speaker 1:He has a 50.5 inch vertical proof of concept. This is Donmond Hawkins. He has a flight time of point nine nine
Speaker 2:Seven? Oh, that's
Speaker 1:every time I hear that, ridiculous. You just gotta get them testing better on the Vertex Roo. So 45
Speaker 3:inch Vertex tested.
Speaker 1:On the Vertex Roo test. Make any sense. So we
Speaker 3:gotta fix that. 48? No. Didn't you touch 122?
Speaker 2:No. 12 flat.
Speaker 3:No. Touched it was 122 at dunk camp. They had it at at twelve two. I remember because we were the only two that touched it. That touched 12.
Speaker 3:Was 12. Because
Speaker 2:Jordan because Jordan missed it, and Kilgannon's 50 is is twelve foot, and he missed it. He's never touched 12 in his life.
Speaker 3:Did he really? Yeah. I'm gonna I'm gonna have to look at I swear with 48. What the hell?
Speaker 2:They didn't have the monster one. They didn't have the monster. It's just a normal one. And they those last one was at twelve.
Speaker 3:Oh. Yeah. Because I asked and I that was my
Speaker 2:first time actually ever using it. And I was like I was like foreign to me. And then I was like, what's it set out? They said twelve. So
Speaker 1:Touched it.
Speaker 3:I've been touching twelve.
Speaker 1:No. We've gotta we just gotta get you testing better. You gotta get you jumping well on a day where you have the Vert Trainer out, and you need to do it more. But before we get into that we're excluding all that. We're gonna talk about what we did yesterday.
Speaker 1:So we had Derek show up, Derek Bochamp, one of the most powerful people I've personally ever seen in person. Right? Do you you agree with that, Isaiah?
Speaker 3:I mean, that's a you. That's a you statement.
Speaker 1:Do you agree for you that that's one of most powerful
Speaker 3:For me? Yeah. For me. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Said I've seen and then I was you were like, do you
Speaker 1:agree with Well, I meant I that you that we've seen in person collectively.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure that
Speaker 1:I've seen. Let's yeah. So let's go through some of the the wattages. Isaiah, do you have your watts that you can pull up on your on your desktop here?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Entertainment people. Well,
Speaker 1:Okay. Yeah. I'll have to entertain the people. So we we did VBT testing at basically every weight that we've been doing the last three weeks. And I don't oftentimes, like, percentages move up, so it doesn't always make sense to use the VBT, especially at top sets if you're using a different weight every week because that's not really gonna be indicative of anything unless your velocities are higher at a heavier weight, which I guess you could potentially see, but that would be kinda hard to do, especially if you're under a lot of fatigue.
Speaker 1:So we've been using it every Monday. We've been looking at the power clean, and Isaiah's metrics have basically indicated that he sustained the same watts. But this third week, we unloaded a little bit, kept the session short. On Friday, Isaiah took some caffeine, came in. Not not more caffeine really than usual, I don't think.
Speaker 1:Right? Do you take, like, excessively more than usual?
Speaker 3:No. Not at all.
Speaker 1:I just it
Speaker 3:was actually, like, a kind of low amount because I did not know I was gonna be
Speaker 1:Feeling spicy? Yeah. So let's do a caveat. We weren't supposed to test. Right?
Speaker 1:So for those of you who don't know, as I said, another PR in the power clean, hit a glorious 330 pounds. Quite good. And during the build up sets, we saw that his velocities and his watts were higher than they'd previously been at pretty much every single weight except for two forty five. I think two forty five is the only one that was slightly less. And then from there, you went to 275.
Speaker 3:Right? 275. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And you hit a higher wattage than you'd ever hit at two seventy five. Right?
Speaker 3:I've the highest I've ever gone is two sixty five. I think, actually, we've done testing at the higher ones, but not when I was feeling good.
Speaker 1:I think it's always less than two sixty five. Your watts never higher at two seventy five than they are at two sixty five.
Speaker 3:Yeah. They always drop off. Does your watts go up to two sixty my, like, best.
Speaker 1:Right. Yeah. And this was the exception. It was yesterday. Oh, no.
Speaker 1:Yesterday, did you hit a oh, you just skipped it entirely.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I skipped two sixty five.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, we didn't we didn't even know what that was at. But we did do two forty five. We saw it kinda drop off. I was like, well, it's okay because we wanted to improve the the lighter like, we wanted the power output these
Speaker 3:And remember I told you, I think if I did it differently, I would have got a better number because the clean itself felt good.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's right. So one of the things to
Speaker 3:keep fatigue myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So one of the things to keep in mind is that when you look at watts, you're looking at work over time. Work is force times distance. So you're looking at how much force you apply and then over what distance you apply that force. So Isaiah actually had a higher distance for the rep.
Speaker 1:He moved the weight. I think it was, like, 46 inches or something like that, 47 inches on that rep specifically, and the weight was, like, pulled insanely high. Like, he almost caught it straight up and down. So that means that the force, and the you know, was higher. The bar weight was higher.
Speaker 1:The distance was higher, but the time interval was lower. So he took more tie or he didn't get to as high of a peak velocity to get a higher peak power. He did it in relatively more time, but he applied the force over longer intervals, so the impulse was higher. So it's still kind of a positive like, a good thing, I guess, you could say. But I think if you picked a different strategy, you could have also clipped that one as well.
Speaker 1:So it was just like PRs across the board. And then we went up to was it three fifteen?
Speaker 3:I I have the the thingy, by the way. You have
Speaker 1:to Oh, yeah. Yeah. Pull it up. Pull
Speaker 3:it up. Have to, like,
Speaker 1:allow allow me. I got you. Someone's Bailey's barking. Alright. So as you guys can see here, these are the two different graphs.
Speaker 1:I believe that so the top one is 11624. The lower one is 122325, and then we have the watts at each of these. So if you look at on this given day, and mind you, Isaiah has beat these numbers a handful of times, we have wait. Did you remove the 80 the 95 pound data on the top ones there, or is it in there?
Speaker 3:You never did 95.
Speaker 1:Oh, oh, that's the earlier data. I see. Got it. So, yeah, if you look at the data here, one thirty five, your oh, so your peak VLO was way higher, but your peak watts were lower? Wait.
Speaker 1:No. Yeah. Oh, no. No. No.
Speaker 1:Okay. So one thirty five, you had better numbers on the '24. Yeah. And then one eighty five, you clip that one. You were able to get that one.
Speaker 1:Higher wattage is there. And then $2.00 5, you didn't do. $2.25, basically, rate on the money, same exact numbers, which is good. 245, we see a very slight drop off. Then we go to 275.
Speaker 1:We don't really have data there. We see 2727. And then we go 315. We don't have data there, but Isaiah's watts just skyrocket. And the reason why this is interesting is because look at two seventy five previously and then look at two seventy five now.
Speaker 1:Right? So we saw a drop off at two seventy five of 200 watts. Right? Pretty considerable drop off. You're just getting started.
Speaker 1:You're, like, just you're, like, you're just gearing up, baby. You're like, I got another gear here. And yeah. So 275 moved like crazy. Three fifteen was otherworldly.
Speaker 1:So your peak, like, wattage, you know, went up an insane amount, and at what weight you did it also went up an insane amount. So it's like
Speaker 3:this one too. This is the the, like, comparison. You can, accept it again. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I got it. Yep. So here's the comparison here, and it gives you an idea of the force velocity curve. So we can see that he got slightly better, at those heavier heavier weights. I wish we had taken another one at one thirty five because I didn't know it was eighteen fifty six.
Speaker 1:I thought we actually had that one. Yeah. But, yeah, we you can see here across the board Mhmm. That there's, like, two PRs, basically. So if you look at the one eighty five number, so if you go left a little bit, Isaiah.
Speaker 3:Oh, shoot. Yep. Right there. I see a mouse on mine that's different from yours. But yeah.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, that's there's one there. And then if you go to the second one, that
Speaker 3:one Technically, this is a
Speaker 1:slightly This was Basically, slightly. What's interesting is you actually have the same exact it looks like it was was what? Like, February or something if you look at the graph, way it's tracing, like the best fit line. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Speaker 1:It kinda just right there, right in line with it. And then we have another PR at, what was that, $2.75. And then we go up to $3.15 and we just have a massive, massive jump. So we have basically shifted the curve upward and to the right, but we still have a very, very slight deficit at that two sixty ish, two sixty five ish, two forty And five
Speaker 3:then maybe here or here the thing is is I feel like I could
Speaker 1:have tried harder. And and beat that. Right?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Like, you would've given me like, when we were doing this power testing, I think we were doing two reps each time Right. When we first first did it. So that blue line yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3:The blue line. But today, I think during this range, I would have beat these scores because I didn't even try two sixty five here. I think I would have beat that, and then I think I could have been up here at the
Speaker 1:two forty five. So you think you could have kept tracing along that line
Speaker 3:pretty much? Yeah. I think which one is it? Yeah. The red line.
Speaker 3:Same same thing with here. Like, we were doing one attempt, and then I actually would've tried this rep again. I thought I beat it. I would've tried this rep again if I knew it was lower. But I think the the real line, trying as hard as I can, would be just above.
Speaker 3:Like, this distance right here between these two, I think red would have been here. Boom. I think two forty five would have been somewhere around here. Two sixty five would have been probably around the same, and then it would have been a smooth, like, whoop.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I think we definitely wanna try to get the whole curve to shift upward at the early side of this and then the late side of this. Right? I think that makes a lot of sense. But, also, the I think the eccentric work was really, really good because you were able to to stop that 330 pound clean power clean.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So what was interesting is we actually had normative data on Derek. So Derek comes in. He's got a four twenty five power clean, and he we put the VVT on, and he is just moving the bar insane velocities. He's muscle cleaning, tall cleaning, right, which is, like, one of the best ways to get super high velocities and wattages because you're moving a really far distance. You're moving it super fast.
Speaker 1:And he's hit I think he hit, like, four meters per second at one fifty five. It's, like, something insanely fast. And then he got up to basically, like, 3,600 watts. I wanna say it was at was at three fifteen that he hit that? Something like that.
Speaker 1:It was, like Yeah. 3,600 watts at, like, three fifteen. It might have been close to this. I guess it was at the same weight that you did, which is hilarious. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then it just stayed, like, flat. Like, his watts just, like, stayed at 3,500 to 3,300, like, the whole time. Like, it never really went much higher. It never went much lower. It just kinda stayed at that same amount.
Speaker 1:But what's interesting about that is if you look at where you hit your peak power, right, you hit it at would have been 9595%
Speaker 3:of my max. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And he hit it at three fifteen divided by four twenty five. He hit it at 74%. So even, you know, for you, even at the, you know, previously, you were hitting it at 85%. You had a or 83% on, like, a really good day.
Speaker 1:Occasionally, you'd hit it at 78. So your curve has shifted upward and to the right relative to him. And then if you look at the the watts per kilogram, what was really interesting about this is Isaiah actually had a relatively higher power output than a debatably world I mean, I would say he's world class weightlifter, which is really, really interesting. So pound for pound, Isaiah has more explosive capacity than a weightlifter, which is pretty insane to me. I would have been curious to do jump squat testing with you guys with the barbell.
Speaker 3:Jump squad, I feel like, would have been insane considering the numbers I put up last time.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I know.
Speaker 3:Feeling like dookie.
Speaker 1:I know. So, yeah, I think, overall, it really confirms what we kind of already knew, and that's the the eccentric work. Sarcomereogenesis got better. Right? Your contraction times in in concentric dominant activities, you know, decreased.
Speaker 1:You you got faster at producing you you got you did the same amount of weight faster. Right? And that's what we wanted to see so the eccentric work worked. And then on top of that, we know that the VBT worked because VBT velocity based training stuff works. Because if you were to compare the beginning of the cycle to the end of the cycle, drastically different.
Speaker 1:Like, insane responder. And even to doubly verify this, Josh power cleans 300 pounds for the first time in quite a while, almost hits or gives three fifteen a rip, which he's never done. I don't think I don't think he's ever tried three fifteen maybe. And then
Speaker 3:been in the three hundreds.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And then he hit four fifteen on back squat. Did you see that?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I did.
Speaker 1:So, you know, which what what's your lens of this, Donovan? I'm actually curious. What do you think of this this work from the boys?
Speaker 2:The the training works. Does inspire you?
Speaker 1:Does it inspire you?
Speaker 2:No. No. Yeah. The the training works, like, obviously. Obviously, it does.
Speaker 3:Yeah, man. The proof is in the You know, I wonder what I seeing Josh PR his back squat. I wonder what mine would have done. When I was slow squatting today, I was feeling really strong because it's like, I've just been the only work we've done at full range of motion is the freaking death reps on Mondays. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And today, you know, just doing regular squats, was like, woah. I feel really strong. Like, I had two twenty five and just going super slow and it was easy. I'm curious. I wonder, like, what my deep barbell back squat would have done if it's
Speaker 1:Yeah. And eccentric work is known to, like, ramp up type two motor recruitment. So it's, like, you know, at the really, really heavy weights, if you're breaking it really effectively, it's possible, you know, maybe you're getting more like, you can yield more easily. Maybe there is, like, that filament winding theory happening, and you're bouncing out of it. And at big, big weights, how fast you move it out of the bottom or at big, big weights, it's how much you can resist the urge to slow down to zero meters per second because you're gonna slow down.
Speaker 1:Out of the bottom, you're gonna come out at, let's say, one meter per second. Once you get to the sticking point, it's don't get to zero meters per second. So the faster you can come out of the bottom, the less likely you are to fail and go negative meters per second downward failing the rep. So if you can come out of the bottom with more speed, you're more likely to do more weight because you won't you won't have to you'll have more room to slow down to zero while not hitting zero, if that makes sense. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So
Speaker 3:The the golden question here, what do you think this would do to the version? I want Not that I can test it anymore.
Speaker 1:Test this, and Isaiah decided
Speaker 3:to build Not decided. Not decided.
Speaker 1:Built a hand brake. That was a choice. Building the hand brake was a choice. It was a choice.
Speaker 3:So I was first off, I wasn't even building it. I was just getting up from the floor. Yeah.
Speaker 1:He was coming from a kneeling position. Who knows why he was on all fours? But, his ankle just gets detonated, and this is a standard Isaiah story. This is a standard Isaiah story. The the story of Isaiah is how stupid ways to hurt yourself.
Speaker 1:One time, he was jumping over a fence, stepping in a hole. One time, it was a fat kid tripping on his ankle, specifically ankles. Lot of stupid I saw him step off a curb once and sprained his ankle
Speaker 3:I did get up athletically because I've been you know, I'm feeling I'm feeling like a spring.
Speaker 1:He rolled it playing basketball. Some kid jumped into his landing space, sprained his ankle. I've seen him step backwards on someone not even in a play, sprained his ankle. What are some other ridiculous
Speaker 3:Knuckles we
Speaker 1:could. The knuckle he dunked in his ligament, rolled off his hand tendon, rolled off his knuckle. That was a that was a stupid one. It's like just stupid injuries that shouldn't happen that sometimes happen. And here's a perfect example.
Speaker 1:One Isaiah stands up and his I think it's probably one of the peroneal tendons just rolls under his, like, between his talus and his fibula and just causes immense pain. He calls me. I can't walk. Help. I've fallen and can't get up.
Speaker 3:I was yelling. I was in my office, home alone. I I just hear, a click in my ankle, and then it feels like I got shot in the freaking on the side of my ankle. And then I'm just screaming in my office and I felt so helpless.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So he calls me and I'm in the middle of filming content and I call him back. Yeah. And I call him back. I'm like, what happened?
Speaker 1:He's like, dude, I can't move my foot. I was like, you're actually shitting me. And I was like, I think what happened is this. Let's just mobilize it lightly, take some ibuprofen, take like, walk around, try to, you know, get get the inflammation out of there, and see if we can Look.
Speaker 3:We know I'm a week one responder. This will this is meant to be I won't be able to jump this week. Then we're gonna start week one of training.
Speaker 1:You gonna be able to squat on Thursday? Are you gonna be able to do anything on Thursday?
Speaker 3:With the belt squat, anything is possible. I can just lean back, have no forward shin travel. We're good. That that machine is perfect.
Speaker 1:Leg extensions could be good. Leg extensions. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. We're gonna do that. Hip thrust and fucking Can
Speaker 1:you drive?
Speaker 3:No. I don't think so.
Speaker 1:You can't sim race?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Was gonna go with my left leg after we got off the call. On
Speaker 1:that note, guys, if you're interested in coaching, click the link in the description. If you buy an annual plan, it's half the price if you pay for the month to month. So it's 50% off if you buy the annual plan. That's pretty good deal. What do think, Don?
Speaker 2:I mean
Speaker 3:This is with my left leg.
Speaker 2:Worthwhile investment.
Speaker 1:Worthwhile investment while Isaiah drives this. That's it, folks. We're getting out of here. Say a prayer for Isaiah's foot.
